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Living Will : Can a hospital give a family a test result
Sent to Legal Experts July 17 11:24 AM

Living Will:Can a hospital give family a test result implying a term condition,then give a time constraint of 48 hours before invoking the living will and stop life support ?Does family have to get a lawyer ? Family has reasons to distrust the hospital and requested time to verify the results with another dr, and allow relatives to fly in. Can they just pull the plug ?
The patients husband has durable power of attn, and this is in Ohio.
The patient is on a respirator and feeding tube, and in a coma for about 8 weeks. The hospital was going to send to long term care, but now says there are T-cell cancer from spinal tap (not in bone marrow or blood test - not spread ) and wants to terminate support without listing a stage of cancer or any options. Started with unexplained ecephalitis and 5 spinal taps.They disc pain meds,which implies that if we contest term defin,they will explore conscious.

Thanks in advance for a fast answer,we are 28 hours away from the 48 they impossed

 

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Cleveland, Ohio

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July 17 11:40 AM (16 minutes and 26 seconds later)
         
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July 17 12:07 PM (26 minutes and 48 seconds later)
         
The durable power of attorney paperwork states :
If the party is in a permanent unconscious or terminal condition, the agents acts as themself in the capacity for making decisions including giving/withdrawing or refusing to give informed consent for life sustaining treatment. Also says ability to request/review all results.
(I dont have it in front of me, went over it on phone) Why would it say that, if she is in a state that makes it invalid ?

As I am the daughter-in-law,the patients daughter is going to call them to clarify that they need to abide by this until tests are reviewed and that family flys in. If they agree, do you think we still need to get an attorney ? We are questioning their definition of terminal and are seeking an outside opinion of the test.
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July 17 12:11 PM (3 minutes and 48 seconds later)
         
additional info:
durable power of attn - and living will have same date signed.

The durable power of attn states no expiration and has a severability clause.
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July 17 1:40 PM (1 hour and 29 minutes and 40 seconds later)
         
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July 17 1:58 PM (17 minutes and 36 seconds later)
         
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July 17 2:23 PM (24 minutes and 48 seconds later)
         
Just to clarify :
( since there is an MD also replying )

When can they determine "terminal" ?
Is there an industry standard ? The report says A not classified lymphoproliferative disorder from spinal fluid. Bone Marrow tests are negative.

Is it enough to call the current doctors to state not to invoke the living will and that we are in process of a second opinion ? Must they allow this, or can they bypass the family and invoke the living will ? They stated 48 hours, from the family meeting on Monday. This is a very short amount of time to get an opinion and tests reviewed.

You replied: In OH a living will may not override a durable power of attorney - - where did you get this from ?

The website you referred to states that a DPOA "will not overrule a living will if you have both documents"

Thanks for all of your help in this matter.
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July 17 2:34 PM (11 minutes and 37 seconds later)
         
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July 17 3:15 PM (40 minutes and 57 seconds later)
         
On the law side of the equation - Can one doctor signify terminal and another doctor say not ? Does that constitute "reasonable certainty" and be able to invoke the living will ?

The hospital says terminal. A second oncologists was consulted today with only the reports family was given in hand. That dr said - not enough info to determine terminal and needed more test results.

I agree with you on the court injunction, but I dont think I can do it. It is my husbands mother, and I would think only the children or husband of the patient have the legal right. I have already passed on your advice. The daughter of the patient is coming across as they dont have a right ....or have to give notice and I explained what you said and what I read and told her to be careful.

I intend to accept this shortly, as soon as I read your reply to the patients daughter and make sure she is clear on the answer. I dont mean to drag this out. Im hoping the medical expert there would chime in if they have anything else to contribute. Much Thanks.
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July 17 4:03 PM (47 minutes and 24 seconds later)
         
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Dear Customer (name blocked for privacy),

As to "reasonable certainty," that is a standard that can not be determined for certain by anyone other than a judge once the case goes to trial. In medicine, where there are many ways a doctor can make a decision, there will be disagreements about what is "reasonably certain" versus what is not. Just as a reminder, remember the Schiavo FL case where one set of doctors said brain death had occured but they were fought for years by another set that said that was not the case. It was finally only the court that decided that issue.

As for your sister-in-law, please remind her that until she speaks with an attorney, she is only guessing at the law AND even if the law later says she is right about needing to be notified by the hospital (which the OH Bar Association link I provided to you states the hospital does not) will it really matter AFTER the hospital has terminated care to her mother that they should not have (the harm will already have taken place)?

If the hospital disagrees with the family, and they do have their own attorneys who are advising them on this, the family needs to obtain counsel to be sure they can protect their mother if they feel they need to. Without hiring counsel for legal advice in this situation the family will truly just be guessing at what their rights are.


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